Posted by: oboids | April 11, 2007

Convincing Proof that God Exists

G4m Religion and Spirituality Forum Thread

Topic: “Convincing proof that god exists”

Here’s a list of fallacious arguments pro-theism that I’ve collected so far:

takenby.jpg

TakenBy_eriK: the mere fact that you guys are here is proof enuff that God exists : )

This argument is in the form: Because A exist, therefore B exists. I don’t understand how B follows A’s existence. This is stupid!

keizar.jpg Keizar: you dont get to know God, you expereince Him but ofcourse you must open yourself to know Him…why dont you start to ask Him to manifest Himself in you life? just ask Him and surely, you will be amazed how much he has been around all throughout your life… through all the good and bad experinces you ever had… He was just there…God is not a thing, He is not a feeling nor an idea… He exists as God, you only have to accept Him…

This argument is in the form: I feel A. Therefore A exists. This is another stupid argument. Not very convincing!

pbdq.jpg

*pbdq*: u dont biLiv in god xe u di muo xa nakikita? weLL kun gayon, di ka wen naniniwaLanamay utak ka xer di muo nakikita we, i dont wnna vi sarcastic but its tru di va?

This one is really stupid! Ghad, read your philosophy books ghadammit!\

bbarrtt.jpg

bbarrtt: God exist bec he became part of history as stated by the bible and how he became paof the struggling people in it.

Whew, another crazy argument. Because A says B exists, B exists.

Can somebody give a more convincing proof of God’s existence?


Responses

  1. We, humans, the world, nature exist. There are only two possibilities on how we came to be, either we had a beginning or we do not have one.

    Atheists believe on the argument that the origin of man did not begin, in a sense that life is energy, and that energy is never created but is only recycled.

    The scientific premise is used by atheists, but scientifically, it is proven that everything came from an origin. Not exactly a ‘god’, but an origin. Notice how the universe expands like a baloon, and in each passing day the universe grows bigger. What if we went back to the first day where everything in the universe is at the same spot in the cosmos? There is, therefore, a beggining. Not exactly a proof of a God, but a proof of a beginning, an origin.

    Hmm.. wala lang. Just wanna share Something I learned from my Philo class.

    -Arch
    (added you up)

  2. Interesting thought Arch. if you look at the scientific premise that most atheists use it would seem like life has a beginning, and this beginning is the point of origin. And you are absolutely right, the point of origin simply proves a beginning not a creator/god.

    This is assuming time is linearly segmented, and not wave like with a negative and positive pole extending to different directions, try thinking of parallel universe. But hey I’m being too sci-fi here.

    Hawkings wrote something about the timeless universe that our universe has no beginning. Try getting a hold of it. It is a very interesting reading.

  3. A timeless universe. Very interesting.

  4. Which god are you all trying to prove and disprove that exists? The indegenous god of your country (if you still know who he is)?… the supreme trinity of hinduoism from which is the main blue print of christian theology?….or the unseen god that enlightened the Buddha?….or that god of the Jewish people? Which one?

  5. there is a God.

  6. @River – Oh it doesn’t really matter which god, as long as it is a (could be more than 1) or the (only) god who created the universe and all in it, has the power to cast people to damnation (pantheism, belief that God is All and All is God is a different topic), and demands his/her/it’s creation to worship him/her/it otherwise there is punishment yadah yadah.

    I don’t think the burden of proof lies on us (atheists). We don’t believe in God. You don’t prove something that doesn’t exist, that just doesn’t make sense. The thread was asking the theists to show us the atheists a convincing proof of God’s existence.

    @Prinsipe Langaw – “There is a God!” – I like this statement, because it neither proves nor disproves God. It’s actually true to an extent, like GMA is the ‘God'(president) of the Philippines. My boss is the God(manager) of our department. LOL. Hahahaha. Why put an article before God sir Langaw? neweys, if you mean “God exists.” that is not proof, simply an assertion..again i was asking for a convincing proof of god’s existence.

  7. As we say in Thailand: “There is no proof nor words sufficient enough for those who do not believe”. So what is the fucken issue?

    You know how to spot a real atheist to a pathetic phony ones?…very easy. If he started the argument..he’s obviously a phony. He pretends not to believe because he was once disappointed channelling his anger to disprove by raising an argument.

    Think about it. Peace y’all.

  8. @river – you are maybe right, but hey, let’s not limit the creativity of people, maybe there’s someone out there who knows how to convince a former theist turned atheist and make him go back to the fold. There’s no pressure though. It is just fun to argue…makes you practice those sleeping neurons.

    Let’s not talk about who is pathetic..if there’s is one. And let’s not shoot our guns at people. A stupid argument is an illogical argument that doesn’t make sense..what this article is asking for is for someone to ‘share’ his ideas on convincing Proofs of Gods existence…he can site the ancient books in philosophy if he wants..

    and the rest, can critically examine the claim.. Do you get it?

  9. I would really appreciate it if readers can share us a ‘convincing proof of god’s existence’ and follow a logical format that we can examine..something that starts with several premises and ends with an inference or a conclusion. There are several forms available on line. Anyone can copy paste and post here. Either ways, when he or she posts an argument then he/she let the other readers to critically examine the posted argument. That is what this article is for. And that is what i am asking.

    Please no nonsensical comments. Such are very unwelcome. Intelligent and logical arguments are more than welcome though.

    I read the irrational (Argumentum ad hominem) comments to simply entertain me. And who knows, I might post it as another stupid argument in the MAIN Article. Harhar!

  10. In order for a statement to be true, both premises should be true (empirical, observable, tangible).

    this is one major complication in proving such ‘meta-divinities’. One, premises made are not tangible. Therefor premises are all based on logical assumptions (which is very different from an empirical truth). A god’s existence cannot be easily stated through A’s, B’s, and therefores.

    On a lighter note, the arguments to the man (ad hominem) are quite silly. Idiocy, you gotta love it. :d

    -Arch
    (nilink nga pala kita)

  11. Thanks Arch. by far, yours is the most intelligent comment posted. Keep up man. And i realized, ito pala ay dahil isa ka ring isko! LOL! Kumusta fellow peyups dude, Diliman here!

    I agree that in metaphysics, we can not make a 100% conclusive assertion of existence of “god”. It is true that the major complication is that the premises we use to prove “god” are simple logical assumptions. However, most of the scientific conclusions we have right now are based on logical assumptions, probability. It is true that we can only infer god’s existence, let us now critically examine if the inference is acceptable.

    More later..me pasok pa ako.

  12. Ah.wenks isko ka rin pala.. Diliman din ako. Freshie pa lang (at papatay na).

  13. Oboids,

    I want you to be one of my guestbloggers. Do you have an extra time to join us?

    Chico

  14. @Chico,

    Sure man. Send me the details. And i have a few questions too. My YM is oboids..drop me a message when you can. Let’s burn the web with the letters we type.

  15. Magko-comment na ako dapat dito noon pa kaya lang baka hulasan ketch.

    Anyway, I always believe that humans have been worshipping “a god or gods” not only because they believe in an existence of such, but also because humans throughout history have acknowledged that there is something incomprehensible and beyond yet more “powerful” than us.

    As one commenter has stated, everything has got to have an origin. Even the littlest of atoms have to start on something.

    I remember watching a documentary video showing an ape frantically waving and throwing tree branches up in the air while facing a waterfall. Although scientists have yet to conclude what this behavior is, some experts have speculated that this may prove that apes worship spirits.

    If this is true, then the practice of religion may not be a mere diversion from depression, stress, and poverty, but rather as part of human nature.

    I thank you. Bow!

  16. Interesting comment you have there sis.

    Few things, the need for human nature to lean on the divine was explained by psychologist named Freud and he says that such need was the result of “the universal obsessional neurosis of humanity”(Ibid., 44).

    Freud regarded religious beliefs as “…illusions, fulfillments of the oldest, strongest and most insistent wishes of mankind.” (The Future of an Illusion; the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud, trans. and ed. by James Strachey, NY, Liverlight Corporation and London: The Hogarth Press Ltd,1961, XXI,30) Religion, he believed, was a mental defense against the hardships of life. Threatening aspects of life such as earthquakes, floods, storms, diseases and inevitable death “are forces …(which) rise up against us, majestic, cruel and inexorable. (Ibid.,16)” As such, man looks for some kind of security through which he is able to escape many of these threatening issues. And if he is not able to, at least he should feel that such disasters have an exalted purpose. This requires the existence of an ultimate “Father Figure,” an infinite Being who is able to stop any natural disaster or disease and in case He does not, has proper reason to cause these calamities to take place.

    I was thinking that the ape you’ve seen in Discovery Channel (?) and men may have the same neurosis.

    And even if we prove that spirits (those we might call as angels and demons) do exist – an amazing discovery if the scientific community proves it, a sure shot to a nobel prize. This does not necessarily prove the existence of a Supreme Being.

    I remember watching CONTACT, where Dr. Eleanor “Ellie” Arroway (J. Foster) met the alien who took her dad’s image, so as not to freak her out. I remember her asking the alien a metaphysical question, and the alien said that he does not know coz it has always been that way ever since.

    I was already an atheist when I watched that movie, and mind you I cried while watching it. Ambabaw ko noh. LOL

  17. @oboids

    Well, of course I get it. That is why I asked on my very first post which god do you wnat to be proven the existence to you? Each god have specific ways to be manifested.

    Should I would assume that you wanted some proof of the existence of that god of the Jewish people they call Yaweh? If so, let me tell you that he will never manifest himself to anyone who don’t belong to his chosen people. That god has favourites. It’s written! And the Bible is a written history of the Jewish people. So it should never be a basis for anyone who is not Jewish. Hence, that god will never show himself to you.

    On the another plane, to show you that different gods have different ways to be manifested; 1. go to the ATM and withdraw that god 2. Face the mirror, voila! the gods of all gods! Sound silly, but it’s all true.

    I’ll state my question again which you didn’t put weight on previously: Which god do you want to be proven to you?

    Take that! Peace y’all🙂 This stuff is fucken serious…I won’t come here again! LOL.

  18. @River – I think we both agree that the concept God is too vague and confusing (coz there’s just too many) that we have to define it first before we can start the ball rolling. It’s just that I was working on the assumption that most people who reads my Blog defines God as how a monotheist (i.e. Christian, Moslem) would define God. Even still I actually took your question seriously and gave you an answer, I remember saying…

    “Oh it doesn’t really matter which god, as long as it is a (could be more than 1) or the (only) god who created the universe and all in it, has the power to cast people to damnation (pantheism, belief that God is All and All is God is a different topic), and demands his/her/it’s creation to worship him/her/it otherwise there is punishment yadah yadah.

    I think i pretty much answered your question.

    But hey, I really think your reply was interestingly funny. Especially when you gave your examples of gods (i.e. money, myself – hahaha) Made me really smile.🙂

    I apologize for the serious tone of this page. It saddens me that it turned you off though. Your witty comments would have been more than appreciated. :p

  19. YOU’RE TOO DANG SERIOUS DUDE! Lighten up! Did you really think I won’t come back here again? You kiddin’? I’m hooked! (and mainly because I don’t know how to delete links on my blog hahahaha)

  20. YOU’RE TOO DANG SERIOUS DUDE! Lighten up! Did you really think I won’t come back here again? You kiddin’? I’m hooked! (and mainly because I don’t know how to delete links on my blog hahahaha)–don’t tell me you’ll take this again seriously? If you do…get a new girlfriend or sumthin’! Sheesh!🙂

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  26. for me god exist because god help us in every problems that we encounter in our life without god we people are useless………………… char………………………….char……………………..


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